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and it hits me oh my gosh this is that

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triangle

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you know there's explanation for

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everything that occurred in the

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Rendlesham forest incident that doesn't

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involve aliens at all it was completely

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silent it comes right over our heads

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it's so a classic flying-saucer really

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standing in the Clery he turned over its

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my father and held his hand and he

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looked in his eyes he said we're not

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alone welcome to podcast UFO with Martin

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Willis and Michael Luke please remember

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to visit the website podcast uefa.com

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check out the latest blogs and forums

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and while you're there don't forget to

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like our very active Facebook page hello

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and welcome to the show I'm Martyn

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Willis your host Michael local be

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joining us in a sec for the news today's

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podcast is number 72 we have an

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enjoyable guest Nick Redfern he'll talk

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about his new book which is basically on

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missing government files worldwide very

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interesting and I'll also ask him about

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his thoughts on the Roswell case and a

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lot more so Michael what's going on with

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the news we actually have a pretty busy

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news week starting with a new book that

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explores how aliens may develop and look

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Don Lincoln's new book alien universe

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we'll explore our fictional stories of

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alien civilizations and the possible

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ways real intelligent life may develop

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on other planets Lincoln is by trade a

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physicist and said in an NBC interview

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is not just fiction it is not just

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pretend there's some real scientific

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thinking going on the book is now

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available on Amazon yes I embedded the

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movie clip that's in that right on the

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show notes it's really interesting

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little clip by NBC News and also I kind

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of like this guy I'd like to get him on

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the show he says his books not aimed at

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ufology per se but he makes a lot of

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nice scientific points and I like that

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type of thing like to have him on all

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right the Heartland UFO summit the

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Heartland UFO summit was last weekend at

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least if you are listening to this

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podcast close to its Friday November

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first release date it had a great lineup

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including Richard Dolan and organizer

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Sam moranto so for a special report on

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how it went

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Sam moranto well thanks Mike it was a

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great turnout as far as people and

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interesting ideas my god people had

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questions left and right and Richard of

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course always does a stellar job of

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course with us also was David Mahler

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with its new book on triangular UFOs an

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assessment of the situation then we had

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of course our good friend Donald Sherman

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talking about revelations from Roswell

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and his new book on the wright-patterson

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Air Force Base we also had a gentleman

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who hasn't made his appearance in some

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time physicists and scientific

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ufologists Vic Connor who spoke about

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different scientific principles and of

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course our extension into travel and how

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things are basically moving quicker than

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we think so the thought of speed of

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light travel is something more more

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practical and and a possibility than

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than what we may think in a civilization

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far more advanced than us may very well

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be doing that and one of the people you

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just mentioned well actually couple them

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hopefully will be on the show soon I

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been going back and forth with Richard

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Dolan trying to get him on and also

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David Mahler loved to have him on the

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show about triangular UFOs there seems

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to be a lot going on with those type of

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vehicles spotted up in this guy yep in

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Illinois we had a number of cases of

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course he worked on the 2000 January 4th

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and 5th case and we also have new

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developments on that case we have

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witnesses that came forward just in the

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last year who seemed the object earlier

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that evening in Plainfield and one

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individual in Berlin Illinois is that

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the Tinley Park nope

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this is the January this is the UFOs

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over Illinois the police officers Jason

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oh yes the large triangular object we

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also have a gentleman was a fire Oh F

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what was the fire chief or he had some I

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forgot what his designation was in the

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fire department been anyways and in

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Missouri that evening they also chased

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it through number

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States and we're directly underneath it

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with a number of police officers

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unfortunately their video cameras do not

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tilt up so they were unable to videotape

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it but they had descriptions like you

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wouldn't believe and the gentleman

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actually makes a model of it or made a

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number of models and you know this is

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clearly not a conventional aircraft by

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any stretch of the imagination anybody

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thinking that well just get the

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information yeah well Sam it's always a

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pleasure talking to you and we'll

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definitely have you back on the show

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sometime thanks Sam

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thank you much all right thanks for

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checking in Dark Matter detector has

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found nothing scientists with the large

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underground xenon or lux dark matter

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experiment which runs what is believed

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to be the most sensitive Dark Matter

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detector ever built have announced it in

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the first three months they have found

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nothing

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this lack of discovery is actually

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important because it eliminates certain

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particles theorized to make up dark

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matter the lux experiment will run

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through the end of next year you know if

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I was a betting man maybe we should open

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like online betting on this whether

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they're gonna find it or not I got 20

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bucks saying they'll never find anything

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do you are you sure you know what you're

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getting into I'll contact my lawyer

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after we record but yeah I I think

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online betting we can bet yay or nay on

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Dark Matter I got 20 bucks down I got I

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got 20 that says that we will eventually

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figure out an explanation for dark

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matter no no that's a gray area

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you got a gray area and dark matter

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that's not good no but but dark matter

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is itself just insert mass here to solve

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a group of equations to figure out the

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right I mean it's it's a very open-ended

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no it's detecting dark matter detecting

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that's what I'm laying my 20 bucks on

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well the problem is what if dark matter

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is something we already know of but did

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not know that it could exist in a way

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it hasn't been detected yet what if what

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dark matter is is the fact that

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everything is so much bigger than we

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initially thought or that certain things

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as you get out to the edge of the

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universe are for some reason much more

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massive than we believed them to be that

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all those could actually be in their own

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weird way dark matter so I say we come

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up with a solution and I also say we

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could eventually I'm not capping it so

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so there it sounds like you're a little

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soft on the bedding okay here's the how

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the bedding goes out there

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it's either Dark Matter exists and they

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find it with this detector or they don't

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so I got 20 bucks say and they don't and

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we'll leave it at that are we still

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friends yeah yeah okay all right so

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let's move on

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blimp scans Colorado River a white blimp

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known as sky ship 600 or cloud lab has

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been cruising the skies over the

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Colorado River collecting data for an

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upcoming BBC documentary the 68 foot

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tall airship is traveling from coast to

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coast and may inspire UFO reports in

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areas not expecting to see a blimp in

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the air if you see a UFO you might want

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to check and see if the BBC's cloud lab

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is in your area you know I've seen a lot

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of blimps like in San Francisco area

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where I lived for a number of years you

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see them out there all the time

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and you know that I never once thought

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oh that's a UFO they're pretty distinct

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you know I don't know how you could

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possibly mistake one but well actually

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this past a couple weeks I live in st.

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Louis and we've had you know World

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Series games and National League

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championship games and we've had a blimp

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popping around over Busch Stadium

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downtown that because of the way it's

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backlit by the giant message screen

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that's aimed down at the crowd it does

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look really weird from a distance it

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looks very a view ler from a distance it

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does not look like a blimp and I tried

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several times to get pictures of it but

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the weirdest thing I thought personally

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was although I could see it very clearly

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because of the lights of the city if I

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took a picture it wouldn't show up yeah

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the alien conspiracy in Reverse yes and

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finally the New England UFO conference

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draws about 270 the first annual New

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England UFO conference was last Saturday

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and according to newspaper reports

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organizer Steve firm Anees reported 270

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attendees we have links to a couple of

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different newspaper articles on the

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event none of which unfortunately

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mentioned Martin Willis but he was in

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attendance so Martin how was it well you

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know it was really it was really great

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now I didn't really have any place to

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set up there was no table for me to set

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up this time however there was one

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upstairs that I got to meet some great

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people I'll talk about that in a second

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so I didn't really have exposure there I

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did have my cards out I did talk to a

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couple people that listen to the show

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there but again nobody you know it just

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didn't really it just didn't really work

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out the way I thought it was going to

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but here's the good thing I went

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upstairs where I was supposed to go had

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a table up there with Ben and Paul II

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know and they have a radio show that's

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listened to in several cities called

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behind the paranormal actually going to

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be on their show November 17th which is

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a Sunday night at 7 to 8 p.m. and I

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recorded a clip with them great it's a

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father-son team and really Pleasant

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really nice people and here's the clip

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right here all right now I'm actually

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given a little plug here because I'm

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with these great guys here at the New

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England UFO conference and I am with

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Paul and Ben you know and they have

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behind the paranormal

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which is your out of Rhode Island is

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that right yeah unfortunately and let's

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let's hear about your you're associated

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with CBS radio and can you talk a little

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bit about your show and now put this in

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our new segment well thank you Mark yes

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we have two versions of the show behind

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the paranormal with Paul and been you

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know on Sunday evenings we are in four

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cities Boston Pittsburgh Detroit and

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Seattle on the CBS new sky part of the

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CBS network

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and Monday's we're on a New England

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station WOM n wo n 12:40 a.m. out of

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northern Rhode Island there was the

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Boston Province and Owen wood white calm

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I know one worldwide calm and could

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someone listen to your show as a podcast

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everybody can if you really want to

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forests a situation that is that's

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amazing it gets brought up every time

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we're anywhere basically well that's

274
00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:53,740
true well we actually visited Rendell's

275
00:11:58,230 --> 00:11:56,290
from forest last year and we with Larry

276
00:12:00,240 --> 00:11:58,240
Warren one of the prime witnesses and he

277
00:12:02,670 --> 00:12:00,250
showed us around the place and at night

278
00:12:05,340 --> 00:12:02,680
and during the day and it was quite an

279
00:12:06,780 --> 00:12:05,350
experience to a be there having covered

280
00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:06,790
this case really I think more than any

281
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:08,320
radio or television show in the world

282
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:12,010
over a period of 16 hours on CBS and on

283
00:12:16,830 --> 00:12:13,600
an Internet station those podcasts are

284
00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:16,840
all available on our web site and we're

285
00:12:22,410 --> 00:12:19,450
particularly interested in hotspots flap

286
00:12:24,270 --> 00:12:22,420
areas because our theory at least from

287
00:12:25,620 --> 00:12:24,280
my experience and starting out as a

288
00:12:28,830 --> 00:12:25,630
ghost researcher while studying for the

289
00:12:31,530 --> 00:12:28,840
priesthood was that the areas are never

290
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:31,540
isolated you never have a haunted house

291
00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:33,010
caught in court it's always an entire

292
00:12:37,140 --> 00:12:34,690
area that's affected sometimes with the

293
00:12:38,460 --> 00:12:37,150
UFO experiences as well and then

294
00:12:39,990 --> 00:12:38,470
sightings things of this kind of we're

295
00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:40,000
working on several cases like that right

296
00:12:42,180 --> 00:12:40,690
now and we think

297
00:12:43,650 --> 00:12:42,190
Rendlesham might be one of those places

298
00:12:45,750 --> 00:12:43,660
we talked to earlier and you like to

299
00:12:47,940 --> 00:12:45,760
keep the integrity up like I like to on

300
00:12:50,100 --> 00:12:47,950
this show and that's appreciated so I'm

301
00:12:52,020 --> 00:12:50,110
sure our listeners would enjoy checking

302
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:52,030
your show out already well thank you

303
00:12:55,350 --> 00:12:54,010
Mark need to get to know you and thank

304
00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:55,360
you for the plug yes wonderful meeting

305
00:12:59,010 --> 00:12:57,040
you great so that's it for the news

306
00:13:02,730 --> 00:12:59,020
right Michael that's all we have for

307
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:02,740
this week yeah thanks so much and really

308
00:13:06,870 --> 00:13:04,330
you got to listen to Nick Redfern it's a

309
00:13:10,170 --> 00:13:06,880
great show oh I'm looking forward to it

310
00:13:13,980 --> 00:13:10,180
and I want to say next week we have a

311
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:13,990
gentleman named Mark D Antonio and he is

312
00:13:17,700 --> 00:13:14,770
an astronomer

313
00:13:19,870 --> 00:13:17,710
he's also the chief photo analyst for

314
00:13:22,750 --> 00:13:19,880
MUFON that's another good show come

315
00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:22,760
podcast number seventy-three thanks

316
00:14:50,620 --> 00:13:24,530
Michael and I'll talk to you next week

317
00:14:56,030 --> 00:14:53,360
okay I'm with Nick Redfern Nick where

318
00:14:58,130 --> 00:14:56,040
are you are in Texas aren't you yeah I

319
00:15:00,260 --> 00:14:58,140
living in Arlington which is just about

320
00:15:03,740 --> 00:15:00,270
roughly halfway between Dallas and Fort

321
00:15:08,210 --> 00:15:03,750
Worth yes and how long ago did you move

322
00:15:10,190 --> 00:15:08,220
over from England about 12 or 13 years

323
00:15:12,170 --> 00:15:10,200
ago something like that so I've been

324
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:12,180
here quite a long time now yeah and

325
00:15:17,900 --> 00:15:14,010
right off the bat we're gonna be talking

326
00:15:20,030 --> 00:15:17,910
about your book which is for nobody's

327
00:15:23,180 --> 00:15:20,040
eyes only missing government files and

328
00:15:25,310 --> 00:15:23,190
hidden archives that document behind the

329
00:15:28,730 --> 00:15:25,320
truth of the most enduring that's a long

330
00:15:30,829 --> 00:15:28,740
title huh yeah new page books who

331
00:15:32,420 --> 00:15:30,839
publish it they for some reason they

332
00:15:34,070 --> 00:15:32,430
really like to sort of have lung

333
00:15:36,740 --> 00:15:34,080
subtitles which sort of gets to the

334
00:15:39,290 --> 00:15:36,750
heart of the the crux of the book I

335
00:15:40,910 --> 00:15:39,300
guess and you are a publisher of many

336
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:40,920
books how many books in total have you

337
00:15:45,769 --> 00:15:43,770
written I think I've done about about 26

338
00:15:47,510 --> 00:15:45,779
27 something like that and but I've

339
00:15:51,050 --> 00:15:47,520
always got sort of one or two books on

340
00:15:52,579 --> 00:15:51,060
the go in terms of writing them so and

341
00:15:55,390 --> 00:15:52,589
I've been doing that I've been writing

342
00:15:57,890 --> 00:15:55,400
books for about 20 years that works

343
00:16:01,210 --> 00:15:57,900
sorry in the field of journalism for

344
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:01,220
about 25 altogether yeah now I know you

345
00:16:06,740 --> 00:16:04,290
you write on all kinds of topics which

346
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:06,750
are I think are quite fascinating and

347
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:10,050
UFOs are one of those topics what got

348
00:16:14,750 --> 00:16:12,930
you interested in let's just say things

349
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:14,760
out of the box is the paranormal or

350
00:16:20,750 --> 00:16:17,810
whatever what started you on that path

351
00:16:22,460 --> 00:16:20,760
well I guess unlike a lot of people in

352
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:22,470
the UFO field I've ever never actually

353
00:16:26,449 --> 00:16:24,930
seen a UFO personally you know a lot of

354
00:16:27,620 --> 00:16:26,459
people do get involved in the subject

355
00:16:30,620 --> 00:16:27,630
because they have that sort of

356
00:16:32,900 --> 00:16:30,630
life-changing experience but for me it

357
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:32,910
was my father who was worked in the

358
00:16:37,670 --> 00:16:35,250
British Royal Air Force on radar and he

359
00:16:40,329 --> 00:16:37,680
was involved in a couple of UFO

360
00:16:43,340 --> 00:16:40,339
incidents where the radar guys tracked

361
00:16:47,410 --> 00:16:43,350
very fast-moving objects flying a high

362
00:16:49,579 --> 00:16:47,420
speed high level high altitude I mean

363
00:16:51,860 --> 00:16:49,589
approaching the British coastline and

364
00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:51,870
this was at the height of a NATO

365
00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:54,510
exercise in the 1950s called Mainbrace

366
00:16:58,699 --> 00:16:56,880
and the first thought was what it's got

367
00:16:59,810 --> 00:16:58,709
to be the Russians launching some sort

368
00:17:02,390 --> 00:16:59,820
of sneak attack

369
00:17:03,449 --> 00:17:02,400
and so aircrafts were launched from a

370
00:17:06,090 --> 00:17:03,459
nearby air force

371
00:17:08,250 --> 00:17:06,100
and the pilots reported seeing strange

372
00:17:10,350 --> 00:17:08,260
lights in the sky but they couldn't get

373
00:17:12,419 --> 00:17:10,360
close to them and it was almost as if

374
00:17:14,519 --> 00:17:12,429
the UFOs played a sort of game of

375
00:17:16,409 --> 00:17:14,529
cat-and-mouse with the air crews and

376
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:16,419
eventually they were forced to return to

377
00:17:20,819 --> 00:17:18,610
base when they ran low on fuel and this

378
00:17:22,620 --> 00:17:20,829
occurred over the course of three nights

379
00:17:24,899 --> 00:17:22,630
and the objects were never identified

380
00:17:27,630 --> 00:17:24,909
but they were clearly performing

381
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:27,640
maneuvers that far you know should I

382
00:17:31,860 --> 00:17:30,010
wait anything that either the Russians

383
00:17:34,380 --> 00:17:31,870
America or the British were flying at

384
00:17:36,299 --> 00:17:34,390
that time and everybody was told not to

385
00:17:38,310 --> 00:17:36,309
talk about it and reminded of the fact

386
00:17:39,389 --> 00:17:38,320
that they signed the governments the

387
00:17:41,970 --> 00:17:39,399
British government's Official Secrets

388
00:17:46,279 --> 00:17:41,980
Act as it's called and my dad didn't

389
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:46,289
tell me till I was like 13 or 14 and

390
00:17:49,950 --> 00:17:48,490
when he told me you know that's what got

391
00:17:51,930 --> 00:17:49,960
me interested not because he was not

392
00:17:54,409 --> 00:17:51,940
just my own father but because he was

393
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:54,419
somebody trained in the Royal Air Force

394
00:17:59,970 --> 00:17:57,490
on radar and so that's what prompted me

395
00:18:02,279 --> 00:17:59,980
to start looking into it to a greater

396
00:18:05,070 --> 00:18:02,289
degree and it sort of led you down the

397
00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:05,080
path of cryptozoology and all kinds of

398
00:18:09,570 --> 00:18:08,110
other paths as well yeah would you say

399
00:18:12,210 --> 00:18:09,580
that UFOs is one of your favourite

400
00:18:14,539 --> 00:18:12,220
topics in this realm it is but I mean my

401
00:18:16,799 --> 00:18:14,549
my overall favorite one is without doubt

402
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:16,809
cryptozoology which is the study of

403
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:19,330
unknown animals like for example Bigfoot

404
00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:22,330
the Loch Ness monster the abominable

405
00:18:25,919 --> 00:18:24,370
snowman the chupacabra you know the list

406
00:18:28,590 --> 00:18:25,929
goes on in other words the

407
00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:28,600
unacknowledged animals the science tells

408
00:18:34,019 --> 00:18:30,880
us don't exist but you know the

409
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:34,029
witnesses tell us do exist now recently

410
00:18:38,430 --> 00:18:36,370
there was a study done that I just heard

411
00:18:40,049 --> 00:18:38,440
something about is that they're saying

412
00:18:42,690 --> 00:18:40,059
they're almost claiming like they have

413
00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:42,700
evidence against it but not really

414
00:18:47,279 --> 00:18:44,049
they're just revealing that they found

415
00:18:48,299 --> 00:18:47,289
an early form of bear hybrid or

416
00:18:50,580 --> 00:18:48,309
something like that have you been

417
00:18:52,649 --> 00:18:50,590
following that yeah I think this is a

418
00:18:54,450 --> 00:18:52,659
story that relates to the abominable

419
00:18:56,490 --> 00:18:54,460
snowman it's actually not a new story

420
00:18:59,159 --> 00:18:56,500
the idea being that there could be some

421
00:19:02,039 --> 00:18:59,169
form of large bear in the Himalayas

422
00:19:04,620 --> 00:19:02,049
which is responsible for sightings of

423
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:04,630
the Yeti now you know that the ironic

424
00:19:08,190 --> 00:19:06,330
thing is that I don't think there's any

425
00:19:10,590 --> 00:19:08,200
cryptozoologist out there who doesn't

426
00:19:12,029 --> 00:19:10,600
think that sometimes you know bears

427
00:19:14,190 --> 00:19:12,039
particularly when they're standing on

428
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:14,200
hind legs and seeing very fleetingly

429
00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:16,690
might be mistaken for you know something

430
00:19:20,010 --> 00:19:17,110
like a

431
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:20,020
or a Yeti the problem is with this

432
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:23,490
particular theory is almost exclusively

433
00:19:30,270 --> 00:19:26,530
the abominable snowman is seen walking

434
00:19:32,370 --> 00:19:30,280
on two legs yeah for a lengthy period of

435
00:19:33,990 --> 00:19:32,380
time but bears don't do that you know

436
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:34,000
they'll stand up on their hind legs and

437
00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:36,490
they can certainly walk on their hind

438
00:19:40,980 --> 00:19:39,310
legs but they don't do it exclusively or

439
00:19:43,470 --> 00:19:40,990
even for the most part you know they

440
00:19:46,350 --> 00:19:43,480
will walk on four legs typically they'll

441
00:19:47,910 --> 00:19:46,360
stand up to you know look over bushes

442
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:47,920
and things like that to see what's going

443
00:19:52,590 --> 00:19:50,050
on but they it isn't easy for them to

444
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:52,600
walk you know lengthy periods of time on

445
00:19:57,900 --> 00:19:54,730
two legs and so that's one of the issues

446
00:20:00,840 --> 00:19:57,910
it's problematic and you know one of the

447
00:20:04,350 --> 00:20:00,850
things I talked about is finding sort of

448
00:20:06,510 --> 00:20:04,360
bear hairs in the area where the Yeti is

449
00:20:08,670 --> 00:20:06,520
believed to exist well my argument is

450
00:20:10,740 --> 00:20:08,680
well so what you know just because

451
00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:10,750
there's a bear there doesn't mean that's

452
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:13,510
not something else there as well you

453
00:20:17,340 --> 00:20:15,010
know it's kind of like stayin Bigfoot

454
00:20:18,750 --> 00:20:17,350
lives in the woods of North America at

455
00:20:20,940 --> 00:20:18,760
the same time the bears live in the

456
00:20:22,830 --> 00:20:20,950
woods of North America you know the very

457
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:22,840
fact that one animal is there doesn't

458
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:24,970
rule out the possibility that there's

459
00:20:29,370 --> 00:20:27,250
another one there of an unknown nature

460
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:29,380
as well you know you know before we move

461
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:32,080
back into the book and UFOs and all that

462
00:20:36,510 --> 00:20:34,210
since we're on this subject I'll just

463
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:36,520
ask a couple of questions and that is is

464
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:38,770
one of the arguments that you always

465
00:20:43,650 --> 00:20:40,510
hear is how come no one's ever found a

466
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:43,660
skeleton or found you know found one

467
00:20:47,490 --> 00:20:45,610
sleeping or or or something like that

468
00:20:49,980 --> 00:20:47,500
yeah that's actually a good question it

469
00:20:53,220 --> 00:20:49,990
is one of the sort of most baffling

470
00:20:54,930 --> 00:20:53,230
aspects of the phenomenon and there are

471
00:20:56,490 --> 00:20:54,940
sort of two ways to approach it

472
00:20:59,010 --> 00:20:56,500
oh it's actually the several ways of

473
00:21:00,870 --> 00:20:59,020
course the skeptics would say there are

474
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:00,880
no bodies because the creature doesn't

475
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:03,010
exist you know that's the most obvious

476
00:21:07,620 --> 00:21:05,890
explanation mainstream cryptozoologists

477
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:07,630
who perceive Bigfoot is just some sort

478
00:21:12,450 --> 00:21:10,330
of a North American equivalent of like a

479
00:21:15,420 --> 00:21:12,460
giant ape and they view the abominable

480
00:21:17,820 --> 00:21:15,430
snowman as the you know and an ape-like

481
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:17,830
creature in the Himalayas take the

482
00:21:23,370 --> 00:21:20,290
stands that well maybe these creatures

483
00:21:25,470 --> 00:21:23,380
exist only in very small numbers and for

484
00:21:28,260 --> 00:21:25,480
that reason that's why we don't find a

485
00:21:29,910 --> 00:21:28,270
body then you have the third theory

486
00:21:31,020 --> 00:21:29,920
which is argued of the most

487
00:21:32,610 --> 00:21:31,030
controversial that

488
00:21:34,590 --> 00:21:32,620
these creatures are far more sort of

489
00:21:36,990 --> 00:21:34,600
paranormal based than they are

490
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:37,000
flesh-and-blood animals you know in

491
00:21:40,110 --> 00:21:39,010
essence they're sort of like blood leak

492
00:21:42,030 --> 00:21:40,120
ruins of a ghost or something

493
00:21:45,420 --> 00:21:42,040
supernatural but it takes on like a

494
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:45,430
monstrous beastly form now you know that

495
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:48,490
the problem is we have no real proof of

496
00:21:52,290 --> 00:21:50,530
these sort of physicality of Bigfoots

497
00:21:54,180 --> 00:21:52,300
but equally we don't have any proof of

498
00:21:56,690 --> 00:21:54,190
the supernatural angles so in other

499
00:22:00,120 --> 00:21:56,700
words even within the research community

500
00:22:01,890 --> 00:22:00,130
there's a lot of divergence as to why we

501
00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:01,900
don't actually have physical evidence

502
00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:03,370
one more question

503
00:22:07,170 --> 00:22:04,960
that kind of ties in with everything

504
00:22:10,590 --> 00:22:07,180
here you you hear sometimes you hear a

505
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:10,600
connection between UFOs and Bigfoot what

506
00:22:15,030 --> 00:22:13,090
do you have to say about that as far as

507
00:22:16,890 --> 00:22:15,040
sightings well that actually sort of

508
00:22:18,330 --> 00:22:16,900
ties in what I mentioned about the you

509
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:18,340
know the paranormal angle they're

510
00:22:23,190 --> 00:22:20,410
actually a lot of reports on file where

511
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:23,200
people have seen Bigfoot's and they've

512
00:22:28,020 --> 00:22:25,090
seen not so much UFOs but sort of

513
00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:28,030
strange lights in the sky and weird

514
00:22:31,950 --> 00:22:29,710
balls of light flitting through the

515
00:22:33,930 --> 00:22:31,960
woods at the same time that they've seen

516
00:22:35,670 --> 00:22:33,940
Bigfoot's and people clowns have seen

517
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:35,680
the creature like vanish in a flash of

518
00:22:41,130 --> 00:22:38,880
light a friend of mine named Stan Gordon

519
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:41,140
wrote an entire book on this called

520
00:22:47,550 --> 00:22:43,810
silent invasion which deals with a wave

521
00:22:50,550 --> 00:22:47,560
of UFO activity in Pennsylvania in 1973

522
00:22:53,510 --> 00:22:50,560
which was also dominated by sightings of

523
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:53,520
Bigfoot now of course again mainstream

524
00:22:57,930 --> 00:22:55,930
cryptozoologists sort of you know well

525
00:23:00,030 --> 00:22:57,940
their eyes at these types of stories but

526
00:23:02,550 --> 00:23:00,040
from my perspective there are so many of

527
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:02,560
them but it really to me at least does

528
00:23:07,020 --> 00:23:04,410
push Bigfoot down the more of a

529
00:23:09,150 --> 00:23:07,030
paranormal path than it does the idea

530
00:23:11,340 --> 00:23:09,160
that it's just the North American

531
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:11,350
equivalent of a gorilla or whatever you

532
00:23:15,300 --> 00:23:14,050
know mm-hmm about the government you

533
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:15,310
know if someone looks at my website

534
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:18,010
about us you'll see there that I have

535
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:20,050
written that you know I have a feeling

536
00:23:24,750 --> 00:23:22,930
or it's a possibility I should say that

537
00:23:28,140 --> 00:23:24,760
at least some part of our government

538
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:28,150
knows about UFOs and is keeping it from

539
00:23:32,940 --> 00:23:30,370
us not that they might necessarily know

540
00:23:35,220 --> 00:23:32,950
what UFOs are even I know that your book

541
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:35,230
basically talks about stuff like that

542
00:23:38,430 --> 00:23:38,050
can you go over the synopsis of your

543
00:23:43,380 --> 00:23:38,440
book

544
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:43,390
study of a number of conspiracies sort

545
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:45,890
of many of them UFO really

546
00:23:52,180 --> 00:23:49,330
where we have proof or evidence the

547
00:23:53,730 --> 00:23:52,190
government files that should exist of

548
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:53,740
either being sort of destroyed

549
00:23:58,840 --> 00:23:56,690
deliberately or they've vanished or they

550
00:24:01,690 --> 00:23:58,850
can't be found or they were shredded or

551
00:24:03,370 --> 00:24:01,700
burned and you know it's sort of it's a

552
00:24:06,539 --> 00:24:03,380
case of sort of demonstrating the

553
00:24:08,740 --> 00:24:06,549
conspiracy by showing the reader

554
00:24:11,230 --> 00:24:08,750
somebody has tried to wipe out the

555
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:11,240
evidence to hide the story and you know

556
00:24:15,820 --> 00:24:13,250
this only happened once or twice you

557
00:24:17,470 --> 00:24:15,830
could just put it down to you know just

558
00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:17,480
bureaucratic mistakes lest somebody

559
00:24:21,460 --> 00:24:19,130
threw something out when they shouldn't

560
00:24:24,669 --> 00:24:21,470
have but we find it all around the world

561
00:24:25,930 --> 00:24:24,679
where you know government agencies have

562
00:24:28,149 --> 00:24:25,940
said well we've gone looking for the

563
00:24:30,490 --> 00:24:28,159
files but sorry we destroyed them years

564
00:24:33,940 --> 00:24:30,500
ago or they got burned or you know etc

565
00:24:37,180 --> 00:24:33,950
etc and you know that the big question

566
00:24:39,220 --> 00:24:37,190
is who's doing this and why and my

567
00:24:41,409 --> 00:24:39,230
personal view is that you know when

568
00:24:42,549 --> 00:24:41,419
people targets the government and they

569
00:24:44,110 --> 00:24:42,559
say all the government of the evil

570
00:24:46,450 --> 00:24:44,120
people and you know they're preventing

571
00:24:49,389 --> 00:24:46,460
us and finding this information I don't

572
00:24:51,639 --> 00:24:49,399
actually agree with that I think the the

573
00:24:54,940 --> 00:24:51,649
real sort of deep and dark secrets about

574
00:24:57,130 --> 00:24:54,950
the UFO subject aren't directly hidden

575
00:24:59,710 --> 00:24:57,140
by the government itself or even the

576
00:25:00,850 --> 00:24:59,720
relevance acknowledged agencies like the

577
00:25:03,519 --> 00:25:00,860
CIA the FBI

578
00:25:06,850 --> 00:25:03,529
I think the secrets hidden more likely

579
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:06,860
by some sort of shadow type organization

580
00:25:11,169 --> 00:25:08,450
is almost almost like a shadow

581
00:25:13,870 --> 00:25:11,179
government and they didn't sort of

582
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:13,880
necessarily acknowledge to exist and

583
00:25:17,230 --> 00:25:15,770
perhaps even Congress and people like

584
00:25:19,570 --> 00:25:17,240
this don't even know about it but

585
00:25:21,940 --> 00:25:19,580
because it's so deeply buried in the

586
00:25:24,460 --> 00:25:21,950
official infrastructure so I don't sort

587
00:25:26,049 --> 00:25:24,470
of portray you know that the FBI the CIA

588
00:25:27,940 --> 00:25:26,059
rebel is the bad guys I don't think

589
00:25:30,820 --> 00:25:27,950
they're the people hiding the truth they

590
00:25:34,779 --> 00:25:30,830
may ironically have a lot of data but

591
00:25:36,789 --> 00:25:34,789
they may not be the people who you know

592
00:25:39,639 --> 00:25:36,799
hiding the truth that's the facts I

593
00:25:41,260 --> 00:25:39,649
think that sort of goes to another much

594
00:25:44,169 --> 00:25:41,270
deeper level that we haven't yet him

595
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:44,179
hardly begun to penetrating mm-hmm so

596
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:46,730
this kind of leads me to the the kind of

597
00:25:52,510 --> 00:25:49,250
bizarre story of Chase Brandon saying he

598
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:52,520
found a file box named Roswell which is

599
00:25:57,220 --> 00:25:54,530
kind of bizarre what's your take on that

600
00:25:58,210 --> 00:25:57,230
whole situation well yeah I mean this is

601
00:26:02,740 --> 00:25:58,220
an interesting one

602
00:26:04,990 --> 00:26:02,750
and it's also kind of a vexing crud as

603
00:26:07,630 --> 00:26:05,000
well because it's difficult to know

604
00:26:09,970 --> 00:26:07,640
where the truth lies but chase Brandon

605
00:26:14,260 --> 00:26:09,980
was a man who serviced a couple of years

606
00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:14,270
ago a former CIA employee who claimed to

607
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:16,640
have read it or seen a document titled

608
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:20,530
Roswell now Brandon was the CIA's

609
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:22,970
entertainment liaison officer as it's

610
00:26:27,279 --> 00:26:25,010
known with Hollywood let's say you know

611
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:27,289
a Hollywood production company wants to

612
00:26:30,820 --> 00:26:28,970
America sort a big-budget movie or

613
00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:30,830
whatever a bit and there's information

614
00:26:35,830 --> 00:26:33,440
in there on the CIA the CIA actually has

615
00:26:37,990 --> 00:26:35,840
like a person who can help them you know

616
00:26:40,060 --> 00:26:38,000
understand how the agency works and the

617
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:40,070
types of things he does you know so it's

618
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:42,530
like a PR type person but liaison with

619
00:26:48,549 --> 00:26:45,770
the world of entertainment and Brandon

620
00:26:50,470 --> 00:26:48,559
claimed that on one particular case and

621
00:26:52,930 --> 00:26:50,480
while he was working with the CIA spent

622
00:26:55,299 --> 00:26:52,940
time in an area called the historical

623
00:26:57,580 --> 00:26:55,309
intelligence collection which is a real

624
00:26:59,230 --> 00:26:57,590
part of the CIA it's located at the

625
00:27:02,080 --> 00:26:59,240
agency's headquarters in Langley

626
00:27:05,529 --> 00:27:02,090
Virginia and he said that he saw this

627
00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:05,539
file which was titled Roswell now he

628
00:27:11,380 --> 00:27:07,809
didn't actually go into too much detail

629
00:27:14,020 --> 00:27:11,390
you know with regard to what the file

630
00:27:17,470 --> 00:27:14,030
actually stated but he said there were

631
00:27:20,710 --> 00:27:17,480
records and documents in there that

632
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:20,720
basically you know suggested there was

633
00:27:25,570 --> 00:27:23,330
far more to the official story than the

634
00:27:28,690 --> 00:27:25,580
government had released or suggested

635
00:27:31,390 --> 00:27:28,700
themselves now the story has provoked a

636
00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:31,400
lot of controversy within it within the

637
00:27:36,730 --> 00:27:35,510
pro' Roswell community for example you

638
00:27:39,100 --> 00:27:36,740
know the very fact that the file was

639
00:27:42,220 --> 00:27:39,110
titled Roswell and it was an old file is

640
00:27:45,730 --> 00:27:42,230
intriguing because the the link between

641
00:27:48,490 --> 00:27:45,740
the events itself and and Roswell to

642
00:27:50,789 --> 00:27:48,500
town you know he's actually a very

643
00:27:53,820 --> 00:27:50,799
flimsy one and has really only been

644
00:27:56,260 --> 00:27:53,830
amplified by the UFO research community

645
00:27:58,060 --> 00:27:56,270
particularly when Charles Berlitz and

646
00:28:01,149 --> 00:27:58,070
Bill Moore wrote the book the Roswell

647
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:01,159
incident in 1980 and by that I mean the

648
00:28:05,950 --> 00:28:03,530
the events itself actually occurred at a

649
00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:05,960
place called the foster ranch in Lincoln

650
00:28:11,770 --> 00:28:09,200
County New Mexico Roswell the town is

651
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:11,780
linked located in chase currency

652
00:28:16,690 --> 00:28:14,210
Roswell actually it's like a two-hour

653
00:28:19,540 --> 00:28:16,700
drive from the town of Roswell to the

654
00:28:22,060 --> 00:28:19,550
crash site right so in other words the

655
00:28:24,670 --> 00:28:22,070
only reason why Roswell to town has

656
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:24,680
become linked to the crash is because

657
00:28:28,540 --> 00:28:26,690
Roswell was where the nearest military

658
00:28:31,990 --> 00:28:28,550
base existed to where the wreckage could

659
00:28:34,060 --> 00:28:32,000
be taken so in other words it's kind of

660
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:34,070
strange that this an official CIA

661
00:28:39,310 --> 00:28:36,530
document would be titled Roswell when

662
00:28:41,740 --> 00:28:39,320
it's actually the UFO community that is

663
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:41,750
responsible for promoting the Roswell

664
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:45,050
UFO link now you'd imagine that the fire

665
00:28:49,210 --> 00:28:46,930
would really be titled something like

666
00:28:51,970 --> 00:28:49,220
incidents on the foster ranch you know

667
00:28:54,790 --> 00:28:51,980
and that would make it more sort of

668
00:28:57,460 --> 00:28:54,800
acceptable I think so even within the

669
00:28:59,710 --> 00:28:57,470
UFO community stirred up a lot of debate

670
00:29:04,090 --> 00:28:59,720
as to whether the story's true or not

671
00:29:06,250 --> 00:29:04,100
and the the CIA didn't come out when the

672
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:06,260
story says I didn't go and say the chose

673
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:08,210
Brandon was a liar they just said they

674
00:29:13,300 --> 00:29:11,120
went looking for the material that he

675
00:29:15,820 --> 00:29:13,310
claimed to have seen and said we can't

676
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:15,830
find it you know so some people

677
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:18,290
suggested that might have been the CIA's

678
00:29:22,390 --> 00:29:20,690
tactful way of not wanting to sort of

679
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:22,400
besmirch the character of one of their

680
00:29:28,690 --> 00:29:25,490
employees but also not having to sort of

681
00:29:31,150 --> 00:29:28,700
openly comments outright on on his

682
00:29:34,210 --> 00:29:31,160
claims but you know the onus is on him

683
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:34,220
to to explain more you know he was the

684
00:29:38,260 --> 00:29:35,930
one that came forward with the story and

685
00:29:40,390 --> 00:29:38,270
so far you know we sort of limited in

686
00:29:43,030 --> 00:29:40,400
what information we've got I would think

687
00:29:44,590 --> 00:29:43,040
that if you had a high clearance I

688
00:29:46,060 --> 00:29:44,600
understand you'd have a high clearance

689
00:29:48,190 --> 00:29:46,070
if you were even looking at these things

690
00:29:50,050 --> 00:29:48,200
but still I would think something like

691
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:50,060
that would be numbered or some type of

692
00:29:55,690 --> 00:29:53,210
code word at such a top level anyway

693
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:55,700
instead of saying just probably you

694
00:29:59,920 --> 00:29:57,770
absolutely right and to just have a file

695
00:30:02,380 --> 00:29:59,930
titled Roswell he's almost sort of too

696
00:30:04,090 --> 00:30:02,390
good to be true you know I mean that's

697
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:04,100
the problem why I think it's been so

698
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:06,890
difficult to access official files on

699
00:30:11,170 --> 00:30:09,530
Roswell because people assume it's going

700
00:30:13,810 --> 00:30:11,180
to be under a file title like Roswell

701
00:30:16,330 --> 00:30:13,820
UFO crash which you know would be

702
00:30:18,430 --> 00:30:16,340
bizarre you know it would be titled

703
00:30:20,530 --> 00:30:18,440
something far more bureaucratic in

704
00:30:22,870 --> 00:30:20,540
nature which is which is typically the

705
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:22,880
way all agencies around the world work

706
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:25,490
you know mm-hmm the last show

707
00:30:29,260 --> 00:30:27,410
I just had Michael Luke who does the

708
00:30:31,150 --> 00:30:29,270
news with me mention that you had a

709
00:30:33,450 --> 00:30:31,160
different type of take on Roswell can

710
00:30:36,250 --> 00:30:33,460
you can you talk about that if it's true

711
00:30:39,790 --> 00:30:36,260
yeah well I mean it's not so much my

712
00:30:42,220 --> 00:30:39,800
take what it is I interviewed way back

713
00:30:44,950 --> 00:30:42,230
now sort of 10 years ago a number of

714
00:30:47,500 --> 00:30:44,960
retired and elderly military personnel

715
00:30:49,780 --> 00:30:47,510
who claimed that the truth of Roswell

716
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:49,790
was actually nothing to do with UFOs

717
00:30:55,210 --> 00:30:51,730
they claimed it was all based around

718
00:30:57,460 --> 00:30:55,220
high-altitude balloon experimentation in

719
00:31:02,940 --> 00:30:57,470
this sort of post Second World War era

720
00:31:04,930 --> 00:31:02,950
sort of 45 46 47 where people were being

721
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:04,940
high-altitude balloons were being

722
00:31:10,230 --> 00:31:07,610
launched with people on board to try and

723
00:31:12,580 --> 00:31:10,240
determine the effects of a high-altitude

724
00:31:16,690 --> 00:31:12,590
exposure you know but this is obviously

725
00:31:18,820 --> 00:31:16,700
pre space you know the space race etc

726
00:31:21,910 --> 00:31:18,830
the Soviets but it was sort of very

727
00:31:23,740 --> 00:31:21,920
early in highly secret experimentation

728
00:31:27,070 --> 00:31:23,750
to try and understand how the human body

729
00:31:29,220 --> 00:31:27,080
would react to high-altitude exposure

730
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:29,230
and that some of these experiments

731
00:31:34,540 --> 00:31:32,450
involved sort of gigantic balloon arrays

732
00:31:36,700 --> 00:31:34,550
that would take these sort of gondola

733
00:31:38,590 --> 00:31:36,710
type of constructions into the sky and

734
00:31:40,419 --> 00:31:38,600
then they would come down and you know

735
00:31:42,700 --> 00:31:40,429
the paper would be tested etc and

736
00:31:45,430 --> 00:31:42,710
supposedly according to the paper I

737
00:31:47,290 --> 00:31:45,440
spoke to at least one of these huge

738
00:31:49,450 --> 00:31:47,300
balloons and one of these gondolas with

739
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:49,460
four or five so-called passengers on

740
00:31:55,690 --> 00:31:52,490
board crashed to earth off range it was

741
00:31:57,310 --> 00:31:55,700
supposed to come down on the White Sands

742
00:32:00,460 --> 00:31:57,320
Missile Range which is this heavily

743
00:32:03,220 --> 00:32:00,470
guarded area of New Mexico a military

744
00:32:05,530 --> 00:32:03,230
installation but it went off course and

745
00:32:08,740 --> 00:32:05,540
supposedly came down on the foster ranch

746
00:32:10,570 --> 00:32:08,750
and in a worst-case scenario the rancher

747
00:32:13,390 --> 00:32:10,580
stumbled across the wreckage and the

748
00:32:14,919 --> 00:32:13,400
bodies of the crew before the military

749
00:32:17,919 --> 00:32:14,929
could get there and he told the local

750
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:17,929
police who then went into Roswell and

751
00:32:21,340 --> 00:32:19,490
then the media picked up the store and

752
00:32:24,370 --> 00:32:21,350
it all blew out of proportion before the

753
00:32:26,260 --> 00:32:24,380
military could get a put the lid down on

754
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:26,270
it and so they come up with this story

755
00:32:30,669 --> 00:32:28,010
about it being a weather balloon and a

756
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:30,679
flying saucer to hide the fact that they

757
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:33,490
didn't want the Russians to find out how

758
00:32:39,010 --> 00:32:36,730
advanced the sort of research was into

759
00:32:41,620 --> 00:32:39,020
high altitude

760
00:32:43,630 --> 00:32:41,630
technology back in 47 you know the

761
00:32:46,270 --> 00:32:43,640
height of the other beginnings I should

762
00:32:48,700 --> 00:32:46,280
say of the Cold War now that I'd be the

763
00:32:50,170 --> 00:32:48,710
first to admit the number the paint

764
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:50,180
lines have you turned out to have

765
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:51,530
backgrounds in the field of

766
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:54,170
disinformation so it's sort of you know

767
00:32:59,890 --> 00:32:57,050
were they spreading this story to hide

768
00:33:02,740 --> 00:32:59,900
the UFO truth or was this the truth from

769
00:33:04,990 --> 00:33:02,750
the UFO angle was a cover story and you

770
00:33:07,390 --> 00:33:05,000
know even for me you know even to this

771
00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:07,400
day ten years or so after I interview

772
00:33:11,770 --> 00:33:09,710
these people actually twelve in one of

773
00:33:14,830 --> 00:33:11,780
the cases I'll be the first to admit I

774
00:33:16,300 --> 00:33:14,840
truthfully don't know which way you know

775
00:33:18,130 --> 00:33:16,310
it goes you know it's one of these

776
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:18,140
situations where it's so baffling and

777
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:20,810
there's so many mirrors and you know

778
00:33:25,900 --> 00:33:23,210
mirrors within mirrors that you just

779
00:33:27,460 --> 00:33:25,910
really don't know who's telling the

780
00:33:29,950 --> 00:33:27,470
truth and who's creating a cover story

781
00:33:32,590 --> 00:33:29,960
but but that was what the the gist of it

782
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:32,600
was so the high-altitude secret balloon

783
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:35,090
experiment using people Wow

784
00:33:39,700 --> 00:33:37,130
that really does add a little bit of a

785
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:39,710
mix to the whole thing doesn't it yeah

786
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:41,360
the problem is you know it's like

787
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:43,970
Roswell to me like a American equivalent

788
00:33:47,530 --> 00:33:46,010
of Britain's Jack the Ripper you know

789
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:47,540
it's so long ago there are so many

790
00:33:53,650 --> 00:33:51,410
different theories and claims that I'm

791
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:53,660
not sure unfortunately unless something

792
00:33:57,790 --> 00:33:55,370
officially surfaces I'm not sure we'll

793
00:33:59,830 --> 00:33:57,800
ever really you know our full

794
00:34:02,440 --> 00:33:59,840
understanding or full proof of what

795
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:02,450
actually occurred that's right and the

796
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:04,490
more the people die off that claim to

797
00:34:09,220 --> 00:34:06,770
have been witnesses and the longer at

798
00:34:10,419 --> 00:34:09,230
the time goes that's right I mean you

799
00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:10,429
know just recently we had the

800
00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:13,520
unfortunate death of Jesse Marcel jr. it

801
00:34:18,820 --> 00:34:16,730
was the young boy whose dad made a Jesse

802
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:18,830
Marcel was one of the people involved in

803
00:34:22,270 --> 00:34:20,330
Roswell and you know brought some of the

804
00:34:25,570 --> 00:34:22,280
wreckage to the house before it was all

805
00:34:28,450 --> 00:34:25,580
classified to show his son and you know

806
00:34:31,389 --> 00:34:28,460
Jesse Marcel jr. was like 11 years old

807
00:34:34,270 --> 00:34:31,399
and he just recently died was nearly 80

808
00:34:36,930 --> 00:34:34,280
you know that demonstrates how long ago

809
00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:36,940
Roswell actually occurred you know it's

810
00:34:41,980 --> 00:34:40,250
it's I mean 60 next year will be 67

811
00:34:44,169 --> 00:34:41,990
years ago you know we're talking now

812
00:34:48,010 --> 00:34:44,179
almost about 70 years two thirds of a

813
00:34:49,720 --> 00:34:48,020
century which makes it you know every

814
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:49,730
year that goes by it becomes more and

815
00:34:52,919 --> 00:34:51,770
more difficult to prove anything on the

816
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:52,929
case really

817
00:34:56,970 --> 00:34:54,970
yeah and there are still having digs

818
00:34:59,609 --> 00:34:56,980
they're having a dig out there I believe

819
00:35:02,279 --> 00:34:59,619
next month well yeah I mean I think this

820
00:35:03,870 --> 00:35:02,289
is an important thing because really the

821
00:35:05,779 --> 00:35:03,880
only way I think we didn't get to the

822
00:35:08,670 --> 00:35:05,789
bottom of Roswell is through some

823
00:35:10,559 --> 00:35:08,680
alternative fashion you know I mean

824
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:10,569
nothing's ever surfaced on the case

825
00:35:15,839 --> 00:35:12,970
about one or two literally one or two

826
00:35:17,099 --> 00:35:15,849
pages of documentation which don't you

827
00:35:19,109 --> 00:35:17,109
know they're not smoking guns they

828
00:35:21,359 --> 00:35:19,119
actually just talk about the press

829
00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:21,369
release the military pulled out and you

830
00:35:26,700 --> 00:35:23,920
know this weather balloon angle so I

831
00:35:28,980 --> 00:35:26,710
think the only way the truth is likely

832
00:35:31,260 --> 00:35:28,990
to surface is if whoever's hiding the

833
00:35:33,210 --> 00:35:31,270
truth decides to release it and I don't

834
00:35:35,190 --> 00:35:33,220
see what their motivation would be for

835
00:35:37,529 --> 00:35:35,200
doing that because they clearly don't

836
00:35:39,900 --> 00:35:37,539
want to do that so I think there are two

837
00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:39,910
possibilities one would be that

838
00:35:45,539 --> 00:35:42,880
something surfaces by mistake that's to

839
00:35:48,029 --> 00:35:45,549
say perhaps a document or a file got

840
00:35:49,950 --> 00:35:48,039
misfiled and it's surfaces one day and

841
00:35:50,430 --> 00:35:49,960
then you know blows the whole thing wide

842
00:35:52,589 --> 00:35:50,440
open

843
00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:52,599
that's you know somebody requests

844
00:35:55,829 --> 00:35:53,680
something through the Freedom of

845
00:35:59,490 --> 00:35:55,839
Information Act and and it's mistakenly

846
00:36:00,779 --> 00:35:59,500
released and the other scenario is you

847
00:36:02,299 --> 00:36:00,789
know in connection with things like this

848
00:36:04,529 --> 00:36:02,309
dig that's going to go ahead where

849
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:04,539
people will be digging out at the

850
00:36:10,170 --> 00:36:07,930
original crash site and China you know

851
00:36:13,410 --> 00:36:10,180
find remnants and scraps of material

852
00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:13,420
that might have got buried or you know

853
00:36:17,099 --> 00:36:15,520
ended up you know even something like a

854
00:36:19,740 --> 00:36:17,109
rabbit hole or something you know just

855
00:36:21,930 --> 00:36:19,750
blew in there 70 years ago and still

856
00:36:23,730 --> 00:36:21,940
wedged inside one of these sort of an

857
00:36:25,829 --> 00:36:23,740
underground crevice or whatever and I

858
00:36:28,140 --> 00:36:25,839
mean the chances of finding something

859
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:28,150
might be slim well on the other hand I

860
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:31,210
think if we don't go looking we're

861
00:36:34,589 --> 00:36:32,890
definitely not gonna find anything so in

862
00:36:37,650 --> 00:36:34,599
that sense it's worth at least trying

863
00:36:39,930 --> 00:36:37,660
that's right now have you been following

864
00:36:42,420 --> 00:36:39,940
the people that claim they have two

865
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:42,430
slides of our Roswell aliens have you

866
00:36:46,529 --> 00:36:44,890
been following that at all yes I have I

867
00:36:49,230 --> 00:36:46,539
know a few little bits about it but I

868
00:36:52,109 --> 00:36:49,240
haven't I've seen anything you know

869
00:36:54,809 --> 00:36:52,119
there's this claim that there is like a

870
00:36:58,410 --> 00:36:54,819
slide or two which shows something like

871
00:36:59,819 --> 00:36:58,420
a body and I mean if it surfaces I mean

872
00:37:01,950 --> 00:36:59,829
that would be great you know and I think

873
00:37:05,339 --> 00:37:01,960
the problem is a great deal of debate

874
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:05,349
and controversy and conversation is

875
00:37:09,150 --> 00:37:06,730
going on about this

876
00:37:10,980 --> 00:37:09,160
or really hardly anybody has actually

877
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:10,990
seen it and I think that's the problem

878
00:37:16,590 --> 00:37:13,210
it's led to all sorts of wild rumors and

879
00:37:18,750 --> 00:37:16,600
an inaccurate rumors but you know the it

880
00:37:21,599 --> 00:37:18,760
does come down to the fact that you know

881
00:37:23,250 --> 00:37:21,609
this these slides do exist the big

882
00:37:25,020 --> 00:37:23,260
question is what they show and you know

883
00:37:27,030 --> 00:37:25,030
will we see them and are they actually

884
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:27,040
related you know to the Roswell story

885
00:37:31,470 --> 00:37:29,410
directly that's right and I think that

886
00:37:33,830 --> 00:37:31,480
would be the most difficult part to tie

887
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:33,840
in is if they related to Roswell or not

888
00:37:38,670 --> 00:37:36,490
yeah these are bigger issues that I

889
00:37:40,740 --> 00:37:38,680
think the I mean that the so-called

890
00:37:42,900 --> 00:37:40,750
dream team which is a comprised of

891
00:37:44,609 --> 00:37:42,910
various Roswell researchers you know

892
00:37:47,370 --> 00:37:44,619
they they're looking into it and have

893
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:47,380
been and have uncovered some intriguing

894
00:37:52,830 --> 00:37:50,170
information but you know I guess for the

895
00:37:55,290 --> 00:37:52,840
rest of us it's really sort of a case of

896
00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:55,300
wait and see what surfaces and when it

897
00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:57,970
surfaces you know in your experience in

898
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:00,400
researching the UFO field what is the

899
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:04,210
most intriguing case in your mind well I

900
00:38:07,620 --> 00:38:05,530
mean there are a lot of them I would say

901
00:38:09,030 --> 00:38:07,630
pretty much near the top of the list

902
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:09,040
there would be what I would consider to

903
00:38:13,650 --> 00:38:11,050
be like a British Roswell and that was

904
00:38:16,140 --> 00:38:13,660
the series of UFO landings and

905
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:16,150
encounters in Rendlesham forest on the

906
00:38:20,970 --> 00:38:18,490
east coast of England in December 1980

907
00:38:24,540 --> 00:38:20,980
where over the course of December the

908
00:38:26,490 --> 00:38:24,550
26th to the 28th there was multiple UFO

909
00:38:29,340 --> 00:38:26,500
encounters in Rendlesham forest which

910
00:38:31,380 --> 00:38:29,350
backs onto two military bases Bentwaters

911
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:31,390
in Woodbridge which are now closed down

912
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:33,570
but back in 1980

913
00:38:38,250 --> 00:38:36,130
they're both British Royal Air Force

914
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:38,260
bases that one was leased out to an

915
00:38:42,270 --> 00:38:40,330
American contingent you know in the

916
00:38:45,420 --> 00:38:42,280
event that the gemba Soviets launched a

917
00:38:47,820 --> 00:38:45,430
sneak attack that it would help you know

918
00:38:51,540 --> 00:38:47,830
sort of defend any assault on mainland

919
00:38:53,670 --> 00:38:51,550
Europe but what's intriguing about the

920
00:38:55,349 --> 00:38:53,680
the Rendlesham story and the reason I

921
00:38:58,170 --> 00:38:55,359
include this in the book is because

922
00:39:00,480 --> 00:38:58,180
there's dimensional evidence that files

923
00:39:03,630 --> 00:39:00,490
on the case have vanished I mean one

924
00:39:05,370 --> 00:39:03,640
classic example is that if we look at

925
00:39:08,490 --> 00:39:05,380
the story of a man named George Wilde

926
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:08,500
George Wilde and a senior position in

927
00:39:14,970 --> 00:39:11,920
the British Prison Service at the time

928
00:39:17,460 --> 00:39:14,980
the Rendlesham case occurred and he

929
00:39:19,470 --> 00:39:17,470
spoke with senior personnel who told him

930
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:19,480
that a nearby prison called high point

931
00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:20,610
prison

932
00:39:26,900 --> 00:39:22,800
primed for evacuation at the height of

933
00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:26,910
the UFO encounters and Georgina Bruner

934
00:39:30,860 --> 00:39:29,250
it was also a Rendlesham researcher who

935
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:30,870
wrote a book called you can tell the

936
00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:33,930
people all about the case she found

937
00:39:38,540 --> 00:39:36,720
evidence of to further prisons which

938
00:39:41,450 --> 00:39:38,550
were primed for evacuation on the same

939
00:39:43,820 --> 00:39:41,460
night suggesting that something very

940
00:39:46,490 --> 00:39:43,830
serious was going down to where the

941
00:39:48,710 --> 00:39:46,500
government was in a panic State and was

942
00:39:50,660 --> 00:39:48,720
you know getting ready to evacuate but

943
00:39:52,340 --> 00:39:50,670
not just the prisoners but also possibly

944
00:39:55,370 --> 00:39:52,350
the people from the local towns and

945
00:39:58,730 --> 00:39:55,380
villages now but in itself an intriguing

946
00:40:00,950 --> 00:39:58,740
story alone but a few years ago about

947
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:00,960
ten years ago now the late Lord Hill

948
00:40:04,940 --> 00:40:03,210
naught there was a former British Chief

949
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:04,950
of Defence Staff he actually tabled the

950
00:40:09,620 --> 00:40:06,690
British government and said you know I

951
00:40:11,780 --> 00:40:09,630
want to see the the governor's logbook

952
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:11,790
from High Point prison for December 1980

953
00:40:17,030 --> 00:40:14,370
to see if there's anything there about

954
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:17,040
this planned evacuation of High Point

955
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:19,530
prison and the government grudgingly

956
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:20,970
even though he was a former defense

957
00:40:25,250 --> 00:40:23,010
chief of Defense staff the government

958
00:40:27,500 --> 00:40:25,260
was quite grudgingly willing to look

959
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:27,510
into it so they went looking and what

960
00:40:31,100 --> 00:40:29,130
they found was that the logbook for

961
00:40:33,380 --> 00:40:31,110
December 1980 is gone

962
00:40:36,170 --> 00:40:33,390
it's just vanished like so many of these

963
00:40:39,860 --> 00:40:36,180
other cases and and again when that

964
00:40:41,810 --> 00:40:39,870
happens for me you know I just cannot

965
00:40:44,060 --> 00:40:41,820
put that down to coincidence or

966
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:44,070
accidents you know the very la book that

967
00:40:49,610 --> 00:40:47,370
could confirm these events it's gone and

968
00:40:52,060 --> 00:40:49,620
and I think that's what we've seen time

969
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:52,070
and time again in the UFO field the

970
00:40:57,650 --> 00:40:54,410
significant documents that should exist

971
00:41:01,160 --> 00:40:57,660
seemingly don't exist anymore and this

972
00:41:02,780 --> 00:41:01,170
is worldwide obviously so this is pretty

973
00:41:05,660 --> 00:41:02,790
amazing when you really think about it

974
00:41:09,890 --> 00:41:05,670
yeah I mean just to go back to Roswell I

975
00:41:13,100 --> 00:41:09,900
mean in 1993 the US New Mexico State

976
00:41:14,390 --> 00:41:13,110
congressman Steven Schiff approached the

977
00:41:16,070 --> 00:41:14,400
what was at the time was called the

978
00:41:17,210 --> 00:41:16,080
General Accounting Office today it's

979
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:17,220
called the Government Accountability

980
00:41:22,190 --> 00:41:20,160
Office to look into Roswell one of the

981
00:41:24,850 --> 00:41:22,200
most significant things they found or

982
00:41:28,010 --> 00:41:24,860
rather they didn't find was every single

983
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:28,020
outgoing message from the Roswell Army

984
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:29,610
Air Force Base as it was called at the

985
00:41:34,279 --> 00:41:33,570
time from 1945 to 1949 for years as

986
00:41:36,049 --> 00:41:34,289
vanished

987
00:41:38,569 --> 00:41:36,059
I mean nobody knows where they are

988
00:41:40,579 --> 00:41:38,579
there's no surrounding documentation

989
00:41:42,529 --> 00:41:40,589
saying you know transfer these files to

990
00:41:44,329 --> 00:41:42,539
this space or that archive or destroy

991
00:41:44,959 --> 00:41:44,339
them or shred them they're just not

992
00:41:47,419 --> 00:41:44,969
available

993
00:41:49,159 --> 00:41:47,429
and even the people in the Air Force who

994
00:41:51,259 --> 00:41:49,169
did the search like the archivists they

995
00:41:53,479 --> 00:41:51,269
couldn't figure out who had removed the

996
00:41:56,329 --> 00:41:53,489
files or even when they've been removed

997
00:41:58,069 --> 00:41:56,339
you know was a month after Stephen

998
00:42:00,620 --> 00:41:58,079
Schiff made the inquiries or was it 30

999
00:42:02,809 --> 00:42:00,630
or 40 years ago nobody was able to

1000
00:42:04,849 --> 00:42:02,819
answer the questions again suggesting

1001
00:42:07,669 --> 00:42:04,859
the to me at least you know that the

1002
00:42:09,439 --> 00:42:07,679
archivists and the was aren't the bad

1003
00:42:11,509 --> 00:42:09,449
guys in this I really don't believe they

1004
00:42:14,509 --> 00:42:11,519
are but it's almost again as if there's

1005
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:14,519
this far more powerful hidden hand that

1006
00:42:19,519 --> 00:42:17,249
sort of just moves in you know and takes

1007
00:42:21,919 --> 00:42:19,529
what it needs without official oversight

1008
00:42:23,539 --> 00:42:21,929
and which even leads you know the people

1009
00:42:27,140 --> 00:42:23,549
in the agencies scratching their heads

1010
00:42:29,989 --> 00:42:27,150
and so that the Rendlesham Sadri sort of

1011
00:42:32,839 --> 00:42:29,999
eerily parallels what happened with the

1012
00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:32,849
Roswell files as well in your best

1013
00:42:39,019 --> 00:42:36,089
estimation would you think that some of

1014
00:42:40,819 --> 00:42:39,029
these files were missing right after the

1015
00:42:43,609 --> 00:42:40,829
Freedom of Information Act and the

1016
00:42:45,229 --> 00:42:43,619
states or do you think it's possible

1017
00:42:47,569 --> 00:42:45,239
they were missing right off the bat

1018
00:42:49,519 --> 00:42:47,579
right after they happened well yeah I

1019
00:42:52,609 --> 00:42:49,529
mean certainly things like Rendell

1020
00:42:55,459 --> 00:42:52,619
Sherman Roswell I think that whoever was

1021
00:42:57,769 --> 00:42:55,469
responsible for sort of controlling the

1022
00:42:59,439 --> 00:42:57,779
flow of information and investigating

1023
00:43:02,749 --> 00:42:59,449
the events I think they would sort of

1024
00:43:04,370 --> 00:43:02,759
acutely have realized the importance of

1025
00:43:06,049 --> 00:43:04,380
them and would have taken steps

1026
00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:06,059
immediately to make sure that all the

1027
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:08,640
documentation and all the data was sort

1028
00:43:12,499 --> 00:43:10,890
of consolidated in one place you know

1029
00:43:15,409 --> 00:43:12,509
the last thing they would want or need

1030
00:43:17,299 --> 00:43:15,419
is dozens of documents flying around all

1031
00:43:21,559 --> 00:43:17,309
over the place with the chance of them

1032
00:43:23,870 --> 00:43:21,569
been surfacing so my view is that

1033
00:43:26,329 --> 00:43:23,880
whatever happened at Roswell I think

1034
00:43:30,559 --> 00:43:26,339
those files were probably put together

1035
00:43:32,599 --> 00:43:30,569
and held in one location since 1947 now

1036
00:43:35,179 --> 00:43:32,609
maybe the location has changed things

1037
00:43:36,919 --> 00:43:35,189
then but I would be surprised if the

1038
00:43:39,259 --> 00:43:36,929
files had been sort of split up and

1039
00:43:41,630 --> 00:43:39,269
shared here there and everywhere you

1040
00:43:43,219 --> 00:43:41,640
know that is that's sort of not the way

1041
00:43:46,130 --> 00:43:43,229
things are done when it comes to like a

1042
00:43:48,330 --> 00:43:46,140
classified project or program you know

1043
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:48,340
they sort of held in one play

1044
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:49,690
and I think that's what makes it

1045
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:51,970
difficult for us to find the files

1046
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:54,130
because number one we don't know who's

1047
00:43:58,560 --> 00:43:55,930
holding them number two we don't know

1048
00:44:00,900 --> 00:43:58,570
which archive beheld at our agency or

1049
00:44:02,820 --> 00:44:00,910
official body and number three the

1050
00:44:05,250 --> 00:44:02,830
official story is well we can't find the

1051
00:44:06,930 --> 00:44:05,260
files anyway no so that that makes it

1052
00:44:09,090 --> 00:44:06,940
even more difficult to try and figure

1053
00:44:12,540 --> 00:44:09,100
out how we get in there's no project

1054
00:44:15,150 --> 00:44:12,550
Bluebook in the States you wonder where

1055
00:44:17,550 --> 00:44:15,160
these files go today when there's some a

1056
00:44:19,770 --> 00:44:17,560
major sighting on enough for the whoever

1057
00:44:22,260 --> 00:44:19,780
it is to pay attention to in our

1058
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:22,270
government where those files go yeah and

1059
00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:24,490
I think for me again this this sort of

1060
00:44:28,950 --> 00:44:26,110
smacks of the idea that there's this

1061
00:44:31,110 --> 00:44:28,960
sort of shadow group because I think if

1062
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:31,120
it was for the regular Air Force or the

1063
00:44:35,940 --> 00:44:34,210
CIL or however you know at least some of

1064
00:44:38,460 --> 00:44:35,950
this latter date material would be

1065
00:44:41,490 --> 00:44:38,470
servicing but it but it clearly isn't so

1066
00:44:42,990 --> 00:44:41,500
you know we talk about well we hear a

1067
00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:43,000
lot about things like black budget

1068
00:44:48,450 --> 00:44:45,280
projects and what are called sa peas or

1069
00:44:50,490 --> 00:44:48,460
special access programs where even for

1070
00:44:53,820 --> 00:44:50,500
example you know Congress and the Senate

1071
00:44:55,740 --> 00:44:53,830
and are very often even the president

1072
00:44:57,690 --> 00:44:55,750
you know isn't fully aware of what's

1073
00:45:00,300 --> 00:44:57,700
going on within these organizations

1074
00:45:02,820 --> 00:45:00,310
because they're so sensitive and covered

1075
00:45:05,070 --> 00:45:02,830
by national security issues that pretty

1076
00:45:07,410 --> 00:45:05,080
much everybody other than the people on

1077
00:45:10,530 --> 00:45:07,420
the project itself are totally out of

1078
00:45:13,710 --> 00:45:10,540
the loop and so I think that's why we're

1079
00:45:15,630 --> 00:45:13,720
not seeing you know too much surfacing

1080
00:45:17,220 --> 00:45:15,640
today as I said you know I don't paint

1081
00:45:19,110 --> 00:45:17,230
the Air Force or evers the bad guys

1082
00:45:21,870 --> 00:45:19,120
hiding the truth because I think even

1083
00:45:25,590 --> 00:45:21,880
they don't really know you know what's

1084
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:25,600
going on it is some sort of deeply

1085
00:45:30,050 --> 00:45:27,850
buried group that possibly even

1086
00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:30,060
officially doesn't exist you know it's

1087
00:45:35,370 --> 00:45:33,280
that the funding comes through sort of

1088
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:35,380
under the table methods and nothing's

1089
00:45:39,690 --> 00:45:37,810
put down in writing you know in terms of

1090
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:39,700
a paper trail to find them and and

1091
00:45:44,850 --> 00:45:41,530
that's what makes it so successful I

1092
00:45:46,170 --> 00:45:44,860
think absolutely and yet I've thought of

1093
00:45:48,330 --> 00:45:46,180
that too because there's a lot of money

1094
00:45:50,940 --> 00:45:48,340
spent that there's no records of where

1095
00:45:52,740 --> 00:45:50,950
it's going to sort of black ops type of

1096
00:45:55,500 --> 00:45:52,750
stuff the thing that comes to mind is

1097
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:55,510
someone is filing for a UFO document

1098
00:46:00,510 --> 00:45:57,570
through the Freedom of Information Act

1099
00:46:01,830 --> 00:46:00,520
they get it in the mail eventually and

1100
00:46:03,660 --> 00:46:01,840
it's blacked out a lot

1101
00:46:05,460 --> 00:46:03,670
it's blacked out who is doing the

1102
00:46:07,740 --> 00:46:05,470
blacking out and what did you know what

1103
00:46:10,740 --> 00:46:07,750
could they possibly be reading someone

1104
00:46:12,750 --> 00:46:10,750
is reading it within that branch of the

1105
00:46:13,830 --> 00:46:12,760
government yeah well what happens when

1106
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:13,840
you file a Freedom of Information

1107
00:46:20,030 --> 00:46:16,930
request if the files are identified and

1108
00:46:22,890 --> 00:46:20,040
located they go to what a particular

1109
00:46:24,420 --> 00:46:22,900
Department that studies if the files not

1110
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:24,430
been released before I should say they

1111
00:46:29,610 --> 00:46:26,850
study it to determine what material

1112
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:29,620
within that document can be released and

1113
00:46:33,990 --> 00:46:31,810
the material that can't be released now

1114
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:34,000
sometimes it's for down-to-earth reasons

1115
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:36,490
for example you know if the files say

1116
00:46:40,590 --> 00:46:38,530
only three or four years old and it

1117
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:40,600
mentions the name of an active agent

1118
00:46:45,390 --> 00:46:43,090
within their agency they will block that

1119
00:46:47,370 --> 00:46:45,400
name out because you know for national

1120
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:47,380
security reasons they don't want people

1121
00:46:53,340 --> 00:46:50,050
knowing who you know the names of

1122
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:53,350
serving military personnel or agency

1123
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:54,850
personnel you know the last thing they

1124
00:46:59,550 --> 00:46:57,130
wants I guess is somebody knocking on

1125
00:47:02,010 --> 00:46:59,560
the doorstep of somebody who holds a

1126
00:47:03,810 --> 00:47:02,020
sensitive position so for that reason

1127
00:47:06,570 --> 00:47:03,820
sort of national security and personal

1128
00:47:09,060 --> 00:47:06,580
privacy and personal safety of the

1129
00:47:13,140 --> 00:47:09,070
relevant employee that the names will be

1130
00:47:14,730 --> 00:47:13,150
withheld there's also a portion of the

1131
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:14,740
Freedom of Information Act that allows

1132
00:47:19,260 --> 00:47:17,410
all medical information on a person to

1133
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:19,270
be withheld from a documents as well you

1134
00:47:22,950 --> 00:47:21,130
know it's a private medical background

1135
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:22,960
that sort of thing but then you have

1136
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:25,450
what's called the classification B 1 and

1137
00:47:30,270 --> 00:47:27,970
B 1 covers national security so if

1138
00:47:32,940 --> 00:47:30,280
there's anything in the documents there

1139
00:47:35,610 --> 00:47:32,950
as an effect or significant effect on

1140
00:47:38,550 --> 00:47:35,620
national security then that can be

1141
00:47:40,140 --> 00:47:38,560
blacked out in under the terms of the B

1142
00:47:42,270 --> 00:47:40,150
1 aspect of the Freedom of Information

1143
00:47:44,550 --> 00:47:42,280
Act and so in other words the people who

1144
00:47:47,010 --> 00:47:44,560
review the files have a high enough

1145
00:47:49,740 --> 00:47:47,020
clearance to where they are allowed to

1146
00:47:52,290 --> 00:47:49,750
read the material and then a

1147
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:52,300
determination is made within the agency

1148
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:54,970
and other departments as to whether or

1149
00:48:00,540 --> 00:47:57,450
not that data can be released now

1150
00:48:03,090 --> 00:48:00,550
obviously in latter day files more often

1151
00:48:05,730 --> 00:48:03,100
than not anything with an effect on

1152
00:48:06,930 --> 00:48:05,740
national security guess we've held but

1153
00:48:08,370 --> 00:48:06,940
if you look back at some of the earlier

1154
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:08,380
files inside the fifties and sixties

1155
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:10,450
where perhaps the secret involved you

1156
00:48:15,660 --> 00:48:12,370
know not necessarily UFO secret but

1157
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:15,670
whatever it was you know even necessary

1158
00:48:21,330 --> 00:48:18,130
relative to today sort of 50 40 years

1159
00:48:23,070 --> 00:48:21,340
old the often that material will be

1160
00:48:26,190 --> 00:48:23,080
released because he has no sort of

1161
00:48:28,140 --> 00:48:26,200
ongoing effect in today's world so he

1162
00:48:30,540 --> 00:48:28,150
very much depends on the contents and

1163
00:48:33,660 --> 00:48:30,550
the age of the documents and you know

1164
00:48:34,980 --> 00:48:33,670
how decisions are made - whether or not

1165
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:34,990
it's going to impact upon national

1166
00:48:39,900 --> 00:48:37,690
security if it's released or not now

1167
00:48:43,020 --> 00:48:39,910
going across the board and all that you

1168
00:48:44,310 --> 00:48:43,030
researched for this particular book what

1169
00:48:47,250 --> 00:48:44,320
do you think is the most intriguing

1170
00:48:48,870 --> 00:48:47,260
missing files well I mean for me one of

1171
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:48,880
the most fascinating stories it's a

1172
00:48:55,650 --> 00:48:51,610
controversial one relates to Marilyn

1173
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:55,660
Monroe and her death in 1962 which you

1174
00:48:59,580 --> 00:48:57,490
know a lot of people still view as a

1175
00:49:03,330 --> 00:48:59,590
suspicious event not just sort of an

1176
00:49:04,980 --> 00:49:03,340
accident or suicide but right murder the

1177
00:49:07,050 --> 00:49:04,990
FBI I've actually been very good about

1178
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:07,060
releasing all their files on Marilyn

1179
00:49:10,740 --> 00:49:08,650
Monroe you can find them at their

1180
00:49:12,900 --> 00:49:10,750
website called the vault and again this

1181
00:49:14,790 --> 00:49:12,910
is why I don't paint you know the

1182
00:49:16,740 --> 00:49:14,800
government agencies are the bad guys

1183
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:16,750
because the FBI has been very good as I

1184
00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:19,810
said it releasing their files but we do

1185
00:49:25,410 --> 00:49:22,480
still get these stories about you know

1186
00:49:27,630 --> 00:49:25,420
the idea that she was murdered and you

1187
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:27,640
know possibly by government agents some

1188
00:49:31,620 --> 00:49:29,890
people say others suggest again like

1189
00:49:34,950 --> 00:49:31,630
some shadow group that has hired

1190
00:49:36,570 --> 00:49:34,960
assassins on its books you know and to

1191
00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:36,580
where there's like plausible deniability

1192
00:49:41,430 --> 00:49:39,250
because there's actually no direct

1193
00:49:44,310 --> 00:49:41,440
government involvement it's sort of you

1194
00:49:46,470 --> 00:49:44,320
know farmed out to a hired hand so to

1195
00:49:49,260 --> 00:49:46,480
speak but the story is very

1196
00:49:51,870 --> 00:49:49,270
controversial story suggests that when

1197
00:49:54,990 --> 00:49:51,880
Marilyn Monroe was having an affair with

1198
00:49:58,190 --> 00:49:55,000
President Kennedy in the early 1960s

1199
00:50:01,260 --> 00:49:58,200
that he supposedly confided in her

1200
00:50:03,450 --> 00:50:01,270
details of various government secrets

1201
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:03,460
presume try to impress her into the

1202
00:50:09,540 --> 00:50:06,970
bedroom so to speak and these related to

1203
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:09,550
things like the Cuban Missile Crisis and

1204
00:50:15,510 --> 00:50:12,370
the Bay of Pigs invasion that you know

1205
00:50:17,670 --> 00:50:15,520
was the planned invasion of Cuba and the

1206
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:17,680
relationship with the Russians and one

1207
00:50:22,980 --> 00:50:19,090
of the stories is that Kennedy

1208
00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:22,990
supposedly told her about his a secret

1209
00:50:27,510 --> 00:50:25,510
trip he or he made to what he described

1210
00:50:29,100 --> 00:50:27,520
as a secret airbase where he was shown

1211
00:50:32,010 --> 00:50:29,110
quote

1212
00:50:34,260 --> 00:50:32,020
bodies and things from outer space you

1213
00:50:37,050 --> 00:50:34,270
know so the implication being at least

1214
00:50:39,060 --> 00:50:37,060
that it was wreckage akin to sort of

1215
00:50:41,820 --> 00:50:39,070
what was found at Roswell and bodies and

1216
00:50:43,860 --> 00:50:41,830
so forth and she supposedly wrote this

1217
00:50:46,110 --> 00:50:43,870
in what she called her diary of Secrets

1218
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:46,120
and Mary Monroe did actually had this

1219
00:50:50,010 --> 00:50:47,770
sort of diary of Secrets as it was

1220
00:50:52,620 --> 00:50:50,020
called you know a lot of people portray

1221
00:50:54,780 --> 00:50:52,630
as like this sort of dumb crazy blonde

1222
00:50:57,030 --> 00:50:54,790
but she actually wasn't she had a deep

1223
00:50:59,010 --> 00:50:57,040
interest in politics and you know the

1224
00:51:00,990 --> 00:50:59,020
world stage etc and she had a great

1225
00:51:03,030 --> 00:51:01,000
memory and she would ride all this stuff

1226
00:51:05,090 --> 00:51:03,040
down that the Kennedys told her and that

1227
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:05,100
she got from other sources as well and

1228
00:51:12,780 --> 00:51:08,530
all we know for sure is that after her

1229
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:12,790
death in August 62 her diary people

1230
00:51:16,620 --> 00:51:14,410
worked in the coroner's office said it

1231
00:51:18,720 --> 00:51:16,630
was taken in there with all the you know

1232
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:18,730
private belongings but he'd vanished

1233
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:20,770
after a couple of days and nobody knew

1234
00:51:25,740 --> 00:51:22,930
what happened to it and it's not being

1235
00:51:28,290 --> 00:51:25,750
seen since but he was sort of like a

1236
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:28,300
hefty leather-bound journal and she

1237
00:51:31,770 --> 00:51:30,130
supposedly over the years had a number

1238
00:51:33,630 --> 00:51:31,780
of these but there was this particular

1239
00:51:36,510 --> 00:51:33,640
one that sort of chronicled everything

1240
00:51:38,490 --> 00:51:36,520
that the Kennedys told her and again

1241
00:51:40,050 --> 00:51:38,500
this sort of demonstrates kind of a

1242
00:51:42,300 --> 00:51:40,060
similar angle where it's not government

1243
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:42,310
files that have vanished but it's a

1244
00:51:48,540 --> 00:51:45,130
private Journal from someone talking

1245
00:51:51,390 --> 00:51:48,550
about government files and again you

1246
00:51:53,010 --> 00:51:51,400
know to what extent we might ever know

1247
00:51:54,750 --> 00:51:53,020
what happened to that journal you know

1248
00:51:57,630 --> 00:51:54,760
we just don't know I'd be surprised if

1249
00:51:59,640 --> 00:51:57,640
it was destroyed because clearly whoever

1250
00:52:01,890 --> 00:51:59,650
took it would want to know you know what

1251
00:52:03,420 --> 00:52:01,900
she was exactly told and who else might

1252
00:52:05,130 --> 00:52:03,430
have been told the information so

1253
00:52:07,980 --> 00:52:05,140
clearly it would have been studied as

1254
00:52:10,230 --> 00:52:07,990
like a forensic document by the agencies

1255
00:52:12,570 --> 00:52:10,240
I think but for me that's one of the

1256
00:52:14,610 --> 00:52:12,580
most fascinating one because you know

1257
00:52:17,100 --> 00:52:14,620
Marilyn Monroe's like an American icon

1258
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:17,110
she's become almost legendary and I

1259
00:52:22,020 --> 00:52:19,210
think in that sense that's why the the

1260
00:52:23,610 --> 00:52:22,030
intrigue surrounding his story continues

1261
00:52:24,900 --> 00:52:23,620
to go on you know you'll never really

1262
00:52:26,970 --> 00:52:24,910
die away right

1263
00:52:29,490 --> 00:52:26,980
I can back that up about Marilyn Monroe

1264
00:52:32,490 --> 00:52:29,500
because I went over some unknown

1265
00:52:35,100 --> 00:52:32,500
documents of hers about to two or three

1266
00:52:37,110 --> 00:52:35,110
years ago and she was absolutely

1267
00:52:39,570 --> 00:52:37,120
brilliant I was kind of shocked after

1268
00:52:41,220 --> 00:52:39,580
reading some of her notes no one could

1269
00:52:42,410 --> 00:52:41,230
ever make a fake journal and put it out

1270
00:52:45,079 --> 00:52:42,420
there because her hand read

1271
00:52:47,660 --> 00:52:45,089
is very unique she was a very intense

1272
00:52:49,339 --> 00:52:47,670
person and she absolutely wrote down

1273
00:52:50,660 --> 00:52:49,349
everything that was in her mind some of

1274
00:52:54,230 --> 00:52:50,670
the things I read kind of blew me away

1275
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:54,240
oh yes she was a very very very clever

1276
00:52:58,760 --> 00:52:56,970
intelligent witty person and but she

1277
00:53:01,250 --> 00:52:58,770
meets you know sort of like the crazy

1278
00:53:03,650 --> 00:53:01,260
Hollywood blonde and I think her a big

1279
00:53:06,650 --> 00:53:03,660
downfall was that she was very emotional

1280
00:53:09,049 --> 00:53:06,660
and you know times are emotionally

1281
00:53:11,210 --> 00:53:09,059
unstable and that sort of you know

1282
00:53:13,460 --> 00:53:11,220
worked against her if that she didn't

1283
00:53:14,870 --> 00:53:13,470
have that aspect of a character you know

1284
00:53:17,359 --> 00:53:14,880
I don't think she probably would have

1285
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:17,369
ended up how she did but unfortunately

1286
00:53:21,890 --> 00:53:19,410
you know she did but that didn't take

1287
00:53:23,539 --> 00:53:21,900
away the fact that I mean she take it

1288
00:53:26,030 --> 00:53:23,549
took a great deal of notice you know

1289
00:53:28,069 --> 00:53:26,040
world politics and things like that yeah

1290
00:53:30,650 --> 00:53:28,079
well Nick this has been really

1291
00:53:32,539 --> 00:53:30,660
intriguing it's been a real enjoyable

1292
00:53:33,319 --> 00:53:32,549
talk with you today I've really really

1293
00:53:35,059 --> 00:53:33,329
liked it a lot

1294
00:53:37,430 --> 00:53:35,069
oh well thanks a lot and appreciate me

1295
00:53:40,039 --> 00:53:37,440
on the show Thanks and when is your

1296
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:40,049
website well people can reach me at Nick

1297
00:53:47,089 --> 00:53:43,680
Redfern forty and which is fo RT EAN

1298
00:53:49,190 --> 00:53:47,099
Nick Redfern forty and blog spot.com all

1299
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:49,200
people can reach me on Facebook as you

1300
00:53:53,270 --> 00:53:51,210
type Nick Redfern in there's there are

1301
00:53:55,789 --> 00:53:53,280
few Nick Redferns but scroll down and

1302
00:53:57,170 --> 00:53:55,799
you'll me on the list okay and you

1303
00:53:58,609 --> 00:53:57,180
said you always have a book or two in

1304
00:54:01,339 --> 00:53:58,619
the works do you have any working titles

1305
00:54:05,180 --> 00:54:01,349
you're working on now yeah but one which

1306
00:54:07,069 --> 00:54:05,190
comes out in June of next year it's it's

1307
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:07,079
called Close Encounters of the fatal

1308
00:54:11,059 --> 00:54:08,970
kind and it's all about mysterious

1309
00:54:13,579 --> 00:54:11,069
deaths within the UFO field of

1310
00:54:15,950 --> 00:54:13,589
researchers and witnesses and people

1311
00:54:17,599 --> 00:54:15,960
like that I had a conversation with

1312
00:54:19,970 --> 00:54:17,609
Peter Robbins about that situation

1313
00:54:23,870 --> 00:54:19,980
that's that's very interesting

1314
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:23,880
yeah it's one that often sort of gets it

1315
00:54:27,020 --> 00:54:25,650
gets touched up a lot of people dismiss

1316
00:54:28,819 --> 00:54:27,030
it as oh well that's just too

1317
00:54:30,230 --> 00:54:28,829
over-the-top but when you look into it

1318
00:54:32,930 --> 00:54:30,240
you actually find there are a lot of

1319
00:54:35,450 --> 00:54:32,940
very weird and sinister deaths in the

1320
00:54:38,030 --> 00:54:35,460
field going way back to the 1940s even

1321
00:54:40,609 --> 00:54:38,040
right right alright so thanks so much

1322
00:54:42,380 --> 00:54:40,619
all right well thanks thanks a lot thank

1323
00:54:43,730 --> 00:54:42,390
you for listening to our show and please

1324
00:54:47,180 --> 00:54:43,740
remember to check out our website

1325
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:47,190
podcast UFO calm for the latest blogs

1326
00:54:52,130 --> 00:54:49,650
and forums we'll be back next week